I do pray that all of Katie & Aaron’s subscribers are paying close attention to the quarantine ruling in New York:
All who have serious doubts about the shot program should pay close attention to what New York has successfully pulled off (so far) in terms of quarantining humans for “suspicion” of having a communicable disease:
Senator Walczyk Denounces Court Decision To Reinstate Quarantine Regulations
I hope all will subscribe to the Bobbie Anne Cox Substack and/or contribute to her commitment to reverse this injustice and anti-Constitutional, anti-Hunan rights ruling in the currently lost state of New York!
Let's hear it for Anton Chekhov! Really enjoyed this far-ranging conversation. I don't think Cornel's going to be able to slug it out on the Campaign Trail against Uncle Corporate Sam, but if can at least get a few words in edge-wise...Gabor Mate is exactly on it when he speaks of "What is possible" vs Hope, which is only the flip side of Despair when your Wish, your "Hope" is not realized.
I can’t say enough about how important this conversation is to long time activists in processing our place in this empire in this time. Thank you for gently providing the bigger context of our struggle for justice, clarifying that our realistic capacity makes sense on a universal and spiritual continuum.
I’d like to host these two icons at my cafe in NYC. This is powerful medicine that we all need. Contact me if this is in the realm of possibility. I’ll provide the drums.
Both Cornel West and Gabor Mate are intellectual relics of the past. Mate is defensive and describes himself as intellectual arrogant. Both come off as wonky and erudite but dance around anything substantive in their discussion of the war in Gaza and the massacre that precipitated it. Mate and West default to the threadbare argument that Palestine is the total victim of occupation and oppression. We are left to assume they are oppressed by Israel and the Jews but it could be just as easily the American Empire. Mate assure's us he has studied the Palestinian occupation thoroughly and is absolutely sure of his analysis that they are total victims of oppression. Why? He assures the listener he has thoroughly studied the issue and he says so. Really? We are left to trust his insight. There is almost no discussion at all about the massacre. Neither brings up the elephant in the room of Islamism in the culture and lives of many of the Palestinians and all of Hamas. Is that even allowed? Somehow we are to trust and know that the Palestinians are all victims and the unsaid hint is that the massacre, while regretful, was just maybe in some ways justified. Listening to Cornel and Mate as well as Katie and Aaron in other forums, one gains a sense for the dogmatic "Oppressor verses oppressed" ideology that they subscribe. It is this same Neo-Progressive ideology that has taken hold of formerly elite centers for learning and free thinking in America such as Wesleyan and the Ivy League and not for the better. In Mate and Cornel's world, to be balanced is to be reflexively for the "oppressed apartheid" victim, whomever that may be. In that they are really not at all activists but sheep and slaves to BDS dogma. The issue of Gaza, Israel, the Palestinians and Jews is more nuanced than what was on offer. Neither is perfect. Sadly what Cornel and Mate gave us was an empty victimization without substantiation. In that we are meant to trust and believe.
Here is a “nuance” for reactionary ultra zionist lunatics: your psychotic tribalism killed your own leader, Rabin, when he worked for a peace deal. That is all anyone needs to know about your evil, depraved, sickening lies and manipulative propaganda.
As Eric Weinstein told Sam Harris on a recent Triggernometry podcast, Trump and Hamas are “inviting” Harris “into the abyss”.
The Abyss is psychotic tribalism. Endless war, endless insanity, endless corruption, endless totalitarianism, endless lies.
You can’t help being an endless gaslighter, manipulator and liar. Sociopath.
What substance are you looking for? Is this what you object to: "Mate and West default to the threadbare argument that Palestine is the total victim of occupation and oppression"? I somewhat see your point. The parts that Palestinians play and have played since 1948 do have some horrible violent and illegal actions. However pointing them out has no consequence compared to the level of oppression dished out by Israel from the beginning. This latest action by Hamas is reprehensible, it's horrible on every level. I don't see how that action would ever result in a positive outcome. Is that the nuance you find missing? I agree this issue is intricate and nuanced, but how could it matter when Israel's response is multiple times the original horror! When you want to claim Hamas started it and the response is just a legitimate right to Israeli self defense; it doesn't work. The true start of and the continuous oppression goes to Israel. They are the ones who violently took people's homes starting in 1948. Since 1948 they have regularly, violently evicted people right out of their homes. They have restricted free movement, jailed and beat people. The daily living conditions are worse than prison. The argument that Israel was given that land by United Nation's decree doesn't work because Israel has ignored what The United Nation's consented to. Every time a Palestinian commits a violent act it goes beyond my sensibilities of reasonable and legal behavior, however it's less than what Israel did to precipitate that behavior. Virtually every Israel apologist claims the violence from Palestinians makes them less than animals that deserve no rights, while completely ignoring what Israel has done from the beginning and all along.
In general I'm not a fan of fundamental anything. (I'm more than not a fan, I find it destructive) In this case more than fundamental attitudes, what I see is that in 1948 a mix of people (at the time a minority are Jewish) are living in their homes, the international community tells them that Jewish people who have been ruthlessly oppressed, and prejudiced against, and murdered, need a safe home, so share Palestine, with something to the effect of "be reasonable" added. Next thing a sizeable number of people are violently moved out of the way, and the fun hasn't stopped since.
"No one" is denying the brutality of the 7th of NOV. attack perpetrated by some Palestinians!!! One can acknowledge their shock, pain, horror and trauma. That is a given! It shud be understood.
HOWEVER, that is no excuse or justification for the behavior and politics exacted by the Israeli Zionist State against The Palestinian inhabitants of the territory where the Palestinian and Israelis dwell since the inception (over 75 yrs.) of the Israeli State!! I'm sorry, but the Israelis act like children as tho the one event of "Nov. 7th" preempts everything that had preceded it! That is RIDICULOUS. We are obliged to "tipy toe" around this event so as to not offend them. (Why do they deserve preferential treatment? Why are they "special"?) They expect the world to treat them as babies!!! (Boo-Hoo!) I am not being "cruel"! No doubt Jewish history is long and fraught with great suffering. But their trauma does not have priority over "another's"!! (...This is what I believe, for better or worse. Fyi. I follow Katie Halper (& Katie with Aaron Maté), Miko Peled, Norman Finkelstein, Chris Hedges, Marc Lamont Hill, Briahna Joy Gray, Etc......)
Dr Mate, you’re brilliant. I believe the Empire - the Bill Gates and the Larry Finks - have been plotting and plundering to get control of the Palestinian oil reserves off the coast of Gaza.
Cornel West showed himself to be a Democratic Party hack on The Jimmy Dore Show and I'm not interested in anything he says at this point. He butters-up the liberal class, which isn't surprising, since he has lived in the ivory towers of Harvard for all of his adult life.
I definitely did not like alot of things West said in that interview. And I'm sick of both parties to the roof. But I didn't like the way Jimmy came across on some platitude of wanting to "coach" him. Cornell is far more knowledgeable than Jimmy on most every subject. And we need more independent people who have the wisdom west has. I would say West was WAY TOO KIND TO BIDEN. But I took issue with both of them in that interview. It was a mess, and a good example of why the far left has so much in fighting which is self destructive. I bet west learned some things that day, but likely Jimmy did not.
I have seen some real bullshit from the JD show, like suggesting they wouldn't believe the genocide was happening had they heard it from an Arab. I see issues with both, and good things about both.
I will likely go with Stein. I like Claudia too as she is a straight up socialist. But I think Cornell is way better than that interview on that day. And Jimmy did his if you don't agree with me then you are wrong about everything routine, which gets old AF
Dr. West tries to be kind to everyone. I tend to think Biden is pure evil, but it is possible that there are objective facts to the contrary, presumably exceptions that prove the rule.
Dr. West teaches civics (or something like that) with a conservative Christian to demonstrate “common ground”, especially on free speech. Differences don’t mean disrespect.
I don’t think that Jimmy Dore has much room for respect for the D-party establishment given how toxic, intolerant of dissent and totalitarian it has become.
I agree with all of that, and I agree with Jimmy Dore on that. That being said I think he often due to hard headedness doesn't grow, or show up prepared. He let RFK rewrite history and go on a pro Israel rant for an hour, mostly because he wasn't and didn't research any of the topics to be discussed & it took another episode with Max Blumenthal to debunk all that RFK bullshit. Cornell West can be TOO respectful at times no doubt. And Jimmy can be too disrespectful without the knowledge to even back up his stance too often.
I also feel like the shit Kurt Metzger & sometimes Jimmy say is just flat out bordering on racist and anti LGBTQ. Which I don't appreciate. But I definitely watch it from time to time and sometimes agree 💯
“Woke” is a bottomless well of toxic depravity and evil (as a special case of the general human condition). It is the pathological form/expression of some actual, partial truths about postmodern relativism* taken to insane extremes because of the “Dictatorship of the Intolerant Minority” (Nassim Taleb”)
* see David Chapman on pattern and nebulosity. meaningness.com
What does "woke" mean to you personally? In other words a definition? Either originally or in it's morphed weaponized state? Just curious given that statement/quote?
John McWhorter's book "WOKE RACISM" goes into it in much more detail, as do his various articles/podcasts, but the basic history is that sometime in the 1960s some black activists noticed that they could get a lot more money from the "white" establishment by exploiting "white guilt" than by actually working to improve the life conditions of poor people.
In black vernacular, "woke" meant awareness of social justice and civil rights, or rather the lack of them and the system of state-sponsored terrorism known as "Jim Crow". that original meaning was HIJACKED by RACE GRIFTERS.
Meanwhile the cultural-left adopted identity politics and Marcuse's idea of Maoist-type cultural revolution adapted to the goal of creating a merger of postmodern relativism, neo-marxism and the corporate-state, as "DEGROWTH". The goal of the New Left shifted from their failed attempts to get the support of actual working class people (even labor unionists trusted their asshole capitalist employers more than they did bigger asshole marxist academics like Marcuse) to destroy all of western civilization, not just "capitalism".
Nassim Taleb's "Dictatorship of the Intolerant Minority" was merged with the "Long March Through the Institutions" and Maoist "Struggle sessions"* to create cancel culture.
Because they had abandoned class struggle, the "woke" creepy crawlies became useful to the emerging class of digital and global capitalism and thus was born the:
WOKE-GRIFTER-INDUSTRIAL-COMPLEX
Because "woke" became a $billion business, it rapidly became corrupt and intellectually bankrupted with flimsy, absurd theories and ideology.
I personally knew "diversity" consultants in the late 1980s that were mindlessly and openly spreading anti-"white" hate ideology and the complete idiocy of "afro-centrism" without a thought to the reality of the things being discussed. Eventually all of that nonsense was debunked by legitimate black scholars, mostly liberal-heterodox types like McWhorter, Musa Al-Gharbi, Coleman Hughes, Tabia Lee and many others, including various social scientists of various "races".
But while the push back against corrupt "woke" has been growing rapidly, the WOKE-GRIFTER-INDUSTRIAL-COMPLEX continues to parasitize the corporate-state because the money is still there.
Along those lines, Dr. West's willingness to call out Obama and the black professional classes that abandoned "black prophet fire" in the pursuit of self-interest was a breathtaking act of moral integrity.
The vicious, reactionary attacks by the black-professional grifter class to West were very revealing of their intellectual fraudulence and moral corruption.
---
* Christian Parenti (socialist) on Marcuse's identitarian ideology
How Herbert Marcuse’s widow used a Scientology-linked cult’s methodology to gamify Identity Politics and thus helped steer the U.S. Left down the dead-end path of identitarian psychobabble.
Ok, so I watched the Sep 7, 2023 West-Dore kerfuffle video, and it was pretty weird. Dr. West could have made a more nuanced case that social justice and civil rights (SJCR) have been HIJACKED by grifters (and the PMC), but that the original movements are still legitimate. (there have been long arguments over the details of stuff like police violence, which the BLM has lied about.)
In other words, West is apparently somewhat insufficiently willing to admit that SJCR has been partly corrupted.
On the other hand, Dore's rant has the problem, but a mirror image of it. He seems to be saying that all concern about SJCR/PMC grifters is nothing more than part of an elite scheme. HE may have done so in the past in other conversations, but Dore needs some "coaching" about how to talk to how to save actual, legitimate SJCR concerns from being hijacked by "woke". There are many examples he could cite. There are several mainstream organizations that have done extensive work on the problem.
I wouldn't say that Cornel West is more knowledgeable than Jimmy on everything; if your mind is closed by ideology, then whatever book learning you have won't help you.
And I don't see what's wrong with trying to lead C. West out of the quagmire in his thoughts. I also didn't see Jimmy doing "if you don't agree with me" to C. West. If Jimmy did that regularly, he wouldn't have the following he does, and I certainly wouldn't follow him for the years that I have.
I will probably vote for Jill Stein again, too, if I vote at all in our rigged, corrupt electoral system. Certainly what They did to her the last time she ran doesn't give me any faith in the system.
I agree I have little faith in this system. Jimmy has some good ideas, for one sticking together along class lines, but I think he sometimes gets blind spots due to staying exclusively on that mindset, to the point of not realizing people who different skin experience this class war drug war race war shit different. But overall I agree with that plan, there is no other way. I enjoyed and agreed with his reaction to how the French handled the age you get retirement benefits at. They took to the streets politics aside. We need more of that here. At least the anti war movement is growing, there are some positive things. Jimmy is good, Metzger on the other hand says shit like "I'm not pro Palestine, I'm anti genocide"(which is cool fine) then he said if an Arab told him it was going on he wouldn't of believed them. I thought damn... Why? Israel has been on this garbage forever, and what are you saying about Arabs, they are liars
I missed Kurt saying that if he heard about it from an Arab, he wouldn't believe it, so I don't know the context.
It's not flattering, but he's certainly honest.
We do need more of the courage that people in other countries show.
Please look into the work of the late Dr Gene Sharp. He was a Harvard professor who spent his life studying nonviolent civil disobedience. He wrote From Dictatorship to Democracy and there's a documentary about him called How to Start a Revolution. He teaches us how to do it.
Yea America is lulled by consumerism & propaganda & a devastatingly effective corrupt oligarchy that helps turn Americans against each other so we forget who the fuck the actual enemies are. The 1% or less who control the strings of this government & could care less about the will of the people.
The reality, which is sad in some ways, is that class struggle ideology, including revolutionary ideology, is a huge failure. Capitalism and colonialism and imperialism are evolved features of most of the major civilizations on the planet at this point. China’s communists integrated capitalism, so good luck with utopian class revolution ideology. Big Organized Labor is mostly intolerant of dissent, feeble and corrupt (I was in unions, including decades as an activist).
That reality forced most of the “left” (cultural/woke) to adopt identity politics, critical theory, etc., including TDS over the last 50 years. The old lest, economic class struggle is mostly one weird fringes, collections of people that are mentally dysfunctional.
But some sane non-woke classical socialists like Adolph Reed have already explained why “race [identity] essentialism” is an enormous failure.
Dr. West could do a better job making clear in some conversations with white leftists that he is NOT promoting “woke” identity essentialism, but rather old school social justice and civil rights activism.
Dore just needs to get past his addiction to moral outrage and narrow ideology, and adopt some kind of meta-narrative.
A holistic psychologist like Dr. Mate could probably give Dore some good “coaching”.
A) Just because something is an "evolved feature" of a civilization, it doesn't mean that it is right or that it will last.
People in the Confederate states believed that slavery was an "evolved state of civilization" and couldn't (or wouldn't) believe that it was wrong or wouldn't last.
You believe that capitalism is the best economic system ever created by man, because that is what you have grown up hearing. And believing.
There's a famous quote, "People believe that capitalism is permanent. They thought the same thing about the absolute power of kings." [paraphrased]
B) "The Left" isn't the group that follows "woke" ideology. They are what Chris Hedges calls "the liberal class." You show that you know nothing about the true Left when you make that mistake.
Like all trollz you are most interested in pulling blobs of absurdly mindless mental feces out of your b0t whole and smearing it on the walls of the comments section.
I love this. Thank you for a meaningful start to my Friday.
So grateful for this treat - thanks Katie and Aaron and Matt for all you do 🙏🏻
I do pray that all of Katie & Aaron’s subscribers are paying close attention to the quarantine ruling in New York:
All who have serious doubts about the shot program should pay close attention to what New York has successfully pulled off (so far) in terms of quarantining humans for “suspicion” of having a communicable disease:
https://open.substack.com/pub/2ndsmartestguyintheworld/p/escape-from-new-york-technocratic?r=w545b&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Senator Walczyk Denounces Court Decision To Reinstate Quarantine Regulations
I hope all will subscribe to the Bobbie Anne Cox Substack and/or contribute to her commitment to reverse this injustice and anti-Constitutional, anti-Hunan rights ruling in the currently lost state of New York!
https://substack.com/@attorneycox?r=w545b&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=profile
Let's hear it for Anton Chekhov! Really enjoyed this far-ranging conversation. I don't think Cornel's going to be able to slug it out on the Campaign Trail against Uncle Corporate Sam, but if can at least get a few words in edge-wise...Gabor Mate is exactly on it when he speaks of "What is possible" vs Hope, which is only the flip side of Despair when your Wish, your "Hope" is not realized.
Beautiful , inspiring , illuminating, stimulating, linguistic dancing, spiritual prancing. The path of two spiritual warriors ! Thank you, both !
I can’t say enough about how important this conversation is to long time activists in processing our place in this empire in this time. Thank you for gently providing the bigger context of our struggle for justice, clarifying that our realistic capacity makes sense on a universal and spiritual continuum.
This was such a beautiful and inspiring conversation, between two towering intellects, modeling compassion. Thank you for this
I’d like to host these two icons at my cafe in NYC. This is powerful medicine that we all need. Contact me if this is in the realm of possibility. I’ll provide the drums.
An immortal conversation
Both Cornel West and Gabor Mate are intellectual relics of the past. Mate is defensive and describes himself as intellectual arrogant. Both come off as wonky and erudite but dance around anything substantive in their discussion of the war in Gaza and the massacre that precipitated it. Mate and West default to the threadbare argument that Palestine is the total victim of occupation and oppression. We are left to assume they are oppressed by Israel and the Jews but it could be just as easily the American Empire. Mate assure's us he has studied the Palestinian occupation thoroughly and is absolutely sure of his analysis that they are total victims of oppression. Why? He assures the listener he has thoroughly studied the issue and he says so. Really? We are left to trust his insight. There is almost no discussion at all about the massacre. Neither brings up the elephant in the room of Islamism in the culture and lives of many of the Palestinians and all of Hamas. Is that even allowed? Somehow we are to trust and know that the Palestinians are all victims and the unsaid hint is that the massacre, while regretful, was just maybe in some ways justified. Listening to Cornel and Mate as well as Katie and Aaron in other forums, one gains a sense for the dogmatic "Oppressor verses oppressed" ideology that they subscribe. It is this same Neo-Progressive ideology that has taken hold of formerly elite centers for learning and free thinking in America such as Wesleyan and the Ivy League and not for the better. In Mate and Cornel's world, to be balanced is to be reflexively for the "oppressed apartheid" victim, whomever that may be. In that they are really not at all activists but sheep and slaves to BDS dogma. The issue of Gaza, Israel, the Palestinians and Jews is more nuanced than what was on offer. Neither is perfect. Sadly what Cornel and Mate gave us was an empty victimization without substantiation. In that we are meant to trust and believe.
Here is a “nuance” for reactionary ultra zionist lunatics: your psychotic tribalism killed your own leader, Rabin, when he worked for a peace deal. That is all anyone needs to know about your evil, depraved, sickening lies and manipulative propaganda.
As Eric Weinstein told Sam Harris on a recent Triggernometry podcast, Trump and Hamas are “inviting” Harris “into the abyss”.
The Abyss is psychotic tribalism. Endless war, endless insanity, endless corruption, endless totalitarianism, endless lies.
You can’t help being an endless gaslighter, manipulator and liar. Sociopath.
What substance are you looking for? Is this what you object to: "Mate and West default to the threadbare argument that Palestine is the total victim of occupation and oppression"? I somewhat see your point. The parts that Palestinians play and have played since 1948 do have some horrible violent and illegal actions. However pointing them out has no consequence compared to the level of oppression dished out by Israel from the beginning. This latest action by Hamas is reprehensible, it's horrible on every level. I don't see how that action would ever result in a positive outcome. Is that the nuance you find missing? I agree this issue is intricate and nuanced, but how could it matter when Israel's response is multiple times the original horror! When you want to claim Hamas started it and the response is just a legitimate right to Israeli self defense; it doesn't work. The true start of and the continuous oppression goes to Israel. They are the ones who violently took people's homes starting in 1948. Since 1948 they have regularly, violently evicted people right out of their homes. They have restricted free movement, jailed and beat people. The daily living conditions are worse than prison. The argument that Israel was given that land by United Nation's decree doesn't work because Israel has ignored what The United Nation's consented to. Every time a Palestinian commits a violent act it goes beyond my sensibilities of reasonable and legal behavior, however it's less than what Israel did to precipitate that behavior. Virtually every Israel apologist claims the violence from Palestinians makes them less than animals that deserve no rights, while completely ignoring what Israel has done from the beginning and all along.
Fair points. What do you think the role of fundamental Islamism plays in all of this?
In general I'm not a fan of fundamental anything. (I'm more than not a fan, I find it destructive) In this case more than fundamental attitudes, what I see is that in 1948 a mix of people (at the time a minority are Jewish) are living in their homes, the international community tells them that Jewish people who have been ruthlessly oppressed, and prejudiced against, and murdered, need a safe home, so share Palestine, with something to the effect of "be reasonable" added. Next thing a sizeable number of people are violently moved out of the way, and the fun hasn't stopped since.
Awesome.
I am soo Sad that this dialogue between "Brother" Cornel and "Brother" Gabor is Over!! Waahh!! (There definitely should be an "encore"!!)
(FYI. for those people who might not know, Gabor Maté, M.D. is Aaron Maté's father!!)
"No one" is denying the brutality of the 7th of NOV. attack perpetrated by some Palestinians!!! One can acknowledge their shock, pain, horror and trauma. That is a given! It shud be understood.
HOWEVER, that is no excuse or justification for the behavior and politics exacted by the Israeli Zionist State against The Palestinian inhabitants of the territory where the Palestinian and Israelis dwell since the inception (over 75 yrs.) of the Israeli State!! I'm sorry, but the Israelis act like children as tho the one event of "Nov. 7th" preempts everything that had preceded it! That is RIDICULOUS. We are obliged to "tipy toe" around this event so as to not offend them. (Why do they deserve preferential treatment? Why are they "special"?) They expect the world to treat them as babies!!! (Boo-Hoo!) I am not being "cruel"! No doubt Jewish history is long and fraught with great suffering. But their trauma does not have priority over "another's"!! (...This is what I believe, for better or worse. Fyi. I follow Katie Halper (& Katie with Aaron Maté), Miko Peled, Norman Finkelstein, Chris Hedges, Marc Lamont Hill, Briahna Joy Gray, Etc......)
Dr Mate, you’re brilliant. I believe the Empire - the Bill Gates and the Larry Finks - have been plotting and plundering to get control of the Palestinian oil reserves off the coast of Gaza.
Cornel West showed himself to be a Democratic Party hack on The Jimmy Dore Show and I'm not interested in anything he says at this point. He butters-up the liberal class, which isn't surprising, since he has lived in the ivory towers of Harvard for all of his adult life.
How inspiring that you r so open-minded! U just go ahead and Slam that door. BANG!
If one doesn't practice one's principles somewhere, you don't have principles, you have hobbies.
I don't have any patience left for phony politicians. Why should I? Giving them too much slack is why we are here.
but you DO have plenty of time to regurgitate and vomit absurdly cheap, mindless and ridiculous slogans all over the comments section.
THE "LEFT" ALWAYS DESCENDS TO BACKSTABBING AND INFIGHTING
This was before the Jimmy Dore kerfuffle , but it is what Dr. West probably would have said if Dore hadn't spent so much time screaming at West.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrUWCMPyIs
Can someone objective summarize the actual differences? I’m sick of YouTube right now.
I definitely did not like alot of things West said in that interview. And I'm sick of both parties to the roof. But I didn't like the way Jimmy came across on some platitude of wanting to "coach" him. Cornell is far more knowledgeable than Jimmy on most every subject. And we need more independent people who have the wisdom west has. I would say West was WAY TOO KIND TO BIDEN. But I took issue with both of them in that interview. It was a mess, and a good example of why the far left has so much in fighting which is self destructive. I bet west learned some things that day, but likely Jimmy did not.
I have seen some real bullshit from the JD show, like suggesting they wouldn't believe the genocide was happening had they heard it from an Arab. I see issues with both, and good things about both.
I will likely go with Stein. I like Claudia too as she is a straight up socialist. But I think Cornell is way better than that interview on that day. And Jimmy did his if you don't agree with me then you are wrong about everything routine, which gets old AF
Dr. West tries to be kind to everyone. I tend to think Biden is pure evil, but it is possible that there are objective facts to the contrary, presumably exceptions that prove the rule.
Dr. West teaches civics (or something like that) with a conservative Christian to demonstrate “common ground”, especially on free speech. Differences don’t mean disrespect.
I don’t think that Jimmy Dore has much room for respect for the D-party establishment given how toxic, intolerant of dissent and totalitarian it has become.
I agree with all of that, and I agree with Jimmy Dore on that. That being said I think he often due to hard headedness doesn't grow, or show up prepared. He let RFK rewrite history and go on a pro Israel rant for an hour, mostly because he wasn't and didn't research any of the topics to be discussed & it took another episode with Max Blumenthal to debunk all that RFK bullshit. Cornell West can be TOO respectful at times no doubt. And Jimmy can be too disrespectful without the knowledge to even back up his stance too often.
I also feel like the shit Kurt Metzger & sometimes Jimmy say is just flat out bordering on racist and anti LGBTQ. Which I don't appreciate. But I definitely watch it from time to time and sometimes agree 💯
“Woke” is a bottomless well of toxic depravity and evil (as a special case of the general human condition). It is the pathological form/expression of some actual, partial truths about postmodern relativism* taken to insane extremes because of the “Dictatorship of the Intolerant Minority” (Nassim Taleb”)
* see David Chapman on pattern and nebulosity. meaningness.com
What does "woke" mean to you personally? In other words a definition? Either originally or in it's morphed weaponized state? Just curious given that statement/quote?
WOKE = RACE GRIFTING
John McWhorter's book "WOKE RACISM" goes into it in much more detail, as do his various articles/podcasts, but the basic history is that sometime in the 1960s some black activists noticed that they could get a lot more money from the "white" establishment by exploiting "white guilt" than by actually working to improve the life conditions of poor people.
In black vernacular, "woke" meant awareness of social justice and civil rights, or rather the lack of them and the system of state-sponsored terrorism known as "Jim Crow". that original meaning was HIJACKED by RACE GRIFTERS.
Meanwhile the cultural-left adopted identity politics and Marcuse's idea of Maoist-type cultural revolution adapted to the goal of creating a merger of postmodern relativism, neo-marxism and the corporate-state, as "DEGROWTH". The goal of the New Left shifted from their failed attempts to get the support of actual working class people (even labor unionists trusted their asshole capitalist employers more than they did bigger asshole marxist academics like Marcuse) to destroy all of western civilization, not just "capitalism".
Nassim Taleb's "Dictatorship of the Intolerant Minority" was merged with the "Long March Through the Institutions" and Maoist "Struggle sessions"* to create cancel culture.
Because they had abandoned class struggle, the "woke" creepy crawlies became useful to the emerging class of digital and global capitalism and thus was born the:
WOKE-GRIFTER-INDUSTRIAL-COMPLEX
Because "woke" became a $billion business, it rapidly became corrupt and intellectually bankrupted with flimsy, absurd theories and ideology.
I personally knew "diversity" consultants in the late 1980s that were mindlessly and openly spreading anti-"white" hate ideology and the complete idiocy of "afro-centrism" without a thought to the reality of the things being discussed. Eventually all of that nonsense was debunked by legitimate black scholars, mostly liberal-heterodox types like McWhorter, Musa Al-Gharbi, Coleman Hughes, Tabia Lee and many others, including various social scientists of various "races".
But while the push back against corrupt "woke" has been growing rapidly, the WOKE-GRIFTER-INDUSTRIAL-COMPLEX continues to parasitize the corporate-state because the money is still there.
Along those lines, Dr. West's willingness to call out Obama and the black professional classes that abandoned "black prophet fire" in the pursuit of self-interest was a breathtaking act of moral integrity.
The vicious, reactionary attacks by the black-professional grifter class to West were very revealing of their intellectual fraudulence and moral corruption.
---
* Christian Parenti (socialist) on Marcuse's identitarian ideology
https://nonsite.org/the-first-privilege-walk/
The First Privilege Walk
BY CHRISTIAN PARENTI
NOVEMBER 18, 2021
How Herbert Marcuse’s widow used a Scientology-linked cult’s methodology to gamify Identity Politics and thus helped steer the U.S. Left down the dead-end path of identitarian psychobabble.
...
Ok, so I watched the Sep 7, 2023 West-Dore kerfuffle video, and it was pretty weird. Dr. West could have made a more nuanced case that social justice and civil rights (SJCR) have been HIJACKED by grifters (and the PMC), but that the original movements are still legitimate. (there have been long arguments over the details of stuff like police violence, which the BLM has lied about.)
In other words, West is apparently somewhat insufficiently willing to admit that SJCR has been partly corrupted.
On the other hand, Dore's rant has the problem, but a mirror image of it. He seems to be saying that all concern about SJCR/PMC grifters is nothing more than part of an elite scheme. HE may have done so in the past in other conversations, but Dore needs some "coaching" about how to talk to how to save actual, legitimate SJCR concerns from being hijacked by "woke". There are many examples he could cite. There are several mainstream organizations that have done extensive work on the problem.
https://www.newsweek.com/dei-college-director-fired-not-being-right-kind-black-person-1813481
-
https://www.fairforall.org/dr-tabia-lee/
I wouldn't say that Cornel West is more knowledgeable than Jimmy on everything; if your mind is closed by ideology, then whatever book learning you have won't help you.
And I don't see what's wrong with trying to lead C. West out of the quagmire in his thoughts. I also didn't see Jimmy doing "if you don't agree with me" to C. West. If Jimmy did that regularly, he wouldn't have the following he does, and I certainly wouldn't follow him for the years that I have.
I will probably vote for Jill Stein again, too, if I vote at all in our rigged, corrupt electoral system. Certainly what They did to her the last time she ran doesn't give me any faith in the system.
I agree I have little faith in this system. Jimmy has some good ideas, for one sticking together along class lines, but I think he sometimes gets blind spots due to staying exclusively on that mindset, to the point of not realizing people who different skin experience this class war drug war race war shit different. But overall I agree with that plan, there is no other way. I enjoyed and agreed with his reaction to how the French handled the age you get retirement benefits at. They took to the streets politics aside. We need more of that here. At least the anti war movement is growing, there are some positive things. Jimmy is good, Metzger on the other hand says shit like "I'm not pro Palestine, I'm anti genocide"(which is cool fine) then he said if an Arab told him it was going on he wouldn't of believed them. I thought damn... Why? Israel has been on this garbage forever, and what are you saying about Arabs, they are liars
I missed Kurt saying that if he heard about it from an Arab, he wouldn't believe it, so I don't know the context.
It's not flattering, but he's certainly honest.
We do need more of the courage that people in other countries show.
Please look into the work of the late Dr Gene Sharp. He was a Harvard professor who spent his life studying nonviolent civil disobedience. He wrote From Dictatorship to Democracy and there's a documentary about him called How to Start a Revolution. He teaches us how to do it.
I like the sound of that, I will check it out
Yea America is lulled by consumerism & propaganda & a devastatingly effective corrupt oligarchy that helps turn Americans against each other so we forget who the fuck the actual enemies are. The 1% or less who control the strings of this government & could care less about the will of the people.
The reality, which is sad in some ways, is that class struggle ideology, including revolutionary ideology, is a huge failure. Capitalism and colonialism and imperialism are evolved features of most of the major civilizations on the planet at this point. China’s communists integrated capitalism, so good luck with utopian class revolution ideology. Big Organized Labor is mostly intolerant of dissent, feeble and corrupt (I was in unions, including decades as an activist).
That reality forced most of the “left” (cultural/woke) to adopt identity politics, critical theory, etc., including TDS over the last 50 years. The old lest, economic class struggle is mostly one weird fringes, collections of people that are mentally dysfunctional.
But some sane non-woke classical socialists like Adolph Reed have already explained why “race [identity] essentialism” is an enormous failure.
Dr. West could do a better job making clear in some conversations with white leftists that he is NOT promoting “woke” identity essentialism, but rather old school social justice and civil rights activism.
Dore just needs to get past his addiction to moral outrage and narrow ideology, and adopt some kind of meta-narrative.
A holistic psychologist like Dr. Mate could probably give Dore some good “coaching”.
A) Just because something is an "evolved feature" of a civilization, it doesn't mean that it is right or that it will last.
People in the Confederate states believed that slavery was an "evolved state of civilization" and couldn't (or wouldn't) believe that it was wrong or wouldn't last.
You believe that capitalism is the best economic system ever created by man, because that is what you have grown up hearing. And believing.
There's a famous quote, "People believe that capitalism is permanent. They thought the same thing about the absolute power of kings." [paraphrased]
B) "The Left" isn't the group that follows "woke" ideology. They are what Chris Hedges calls "the liberal class." You show that you know nothing about the true Left when you make that mistake.
There is no such thing as the “true Left”, idiot. Chris Hedges is a sanctimonious bag of hot air, but you are probably misquoting him anyway, troll.
Like all trollz you are most interested in pulling blobs of absurdly mindless mental feces out of your b0t whole and smearing it on the walls of the comments section.
Cornel's "Ivory Towers" include many more esteemed institutions than "Harvard"! U r not doing him justice!
That was just beautiful lost for words