Nils Melzer responds to the Julian Assange verdict on a special Useful Idiots Livestream. Nils Melzer is the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture; Human Rights Chair, Geneva Academy; Professor of International Law, University of Glasgow; Vice-President IIHL, and the author of The Trial of Julian Assange (https://twitter.com/nilsmelzer)
One of the things that kills me (though not surprising in the least) is this weird jag people go on about Assange endangering intelligence operatives and/or military personnel. It's obvious why of course; it's just about the only tack you can take regarding the ethics of exposing the government. But there's never any focus on the exposed war hawk policies that actively kill soldiers. Nor is there a real conversation on how being reckless, venal and corrupt in and of itself puts the intelligence community more at risk (from exposure, compromised assets, vulnerability to coercion, conflict of interest, and outside influence) more than investigative journalism ever could. It's just supremely spooky to watch media personalities lambaste a fellow journalist by laying hypothetical dead soldiers at his feet.
I was having a great week until Friday when I checked my emails and there you two were plus Glenn Greenwald with the devastating news about Julian Assange. It was obvious to see how this news effected both of you and I too am heart sick. Since 1963 I have grieved the loss of JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, Medgar Evers, Fred Hampton, to name a few, by the filthy hands of the U.S. government. Australia, UK, US are all culpable in this slow motion assassination of Julian, free speech and the demise of whistle blowers The back story on Julian is the most important right now since this began over 10 years ago and the TRUTH needs to be screamed from the roof tops. Look at what happened with the Kenosha event where the media LIED so blatantly that much of the public (foreign and domestic) thought 3 black people were shot! Can you image what those ass wipes aka MSM will do with this story? I am afraid that your example of the two talking headless heads is a preview of coming disinformation. All the independent voices that I listen to need to spread the word…Useful Idiots, Breaking Points, Glenn Greenwald, The Daily Poster, Aaron Mate, The Grayzone, JRE and whomever else. Among all of you, that would be a huge number of listeners that would actually hear the truth. The hope in my heart is waning. Thank you Katie and Matt
I’m glad Katie focused a question on it because I think it’s extremely important to understand this guy’s change of attitude towards Assange. I remember reading about Julian as a computer geek kid in the early 2000s on slash dot or something before I was politically aware and thinking it was so cool. I remember later as a young adult in the 2010s hearing about the rape allegations and since by then I was a good non political liberal i had that major ICK factor, but I still thought his work was worthwhile despite him being an asshole.
But what REALLY made me rabid about this case was when I finally looked into the details of the case. Probably less than 5 years ago. To realize that the whole rape situation was a bullshit setup, and that my strong emotional revulsion towards Assange was actually because I had been successfully manipulated…..
That gave me the righteous fury that animates my conversations about him. “They” successfully convinced me that this guy was a dirty rapist and I believed them. And they fucking lied. And that kind of emotional deception and my realization of it… that engenders some pretty strong feelings.
(Apart from the merits of the case. Like just talking about effective state propaganda )
Thank you for doing this very insightful interview. I just watched Judy Woodruff over at the PBS Newshour interview the journalist who won the Nobel Peace Prize, talking about the dangers to reporters and press freedom. Woodruff made NO MENTION of the Julian Assange case. Frankly, it is hard not to feel rage and disgust at Judy Woodruff's using her friendly face and civilized manner to cover up the repeated sociopathic crimes of our financial oligarchy. But this is STANDARD PRACTICE at the Plutocrat Broadcasting System's "Newshour", as it is with all the other corporate-controlled media. This blanket cover-up is crucial to the public's unawareness of the financial oligarchy's on-going crimes. There is no way in hell Woodruff is ignorant of the glaring, tyrannical assault on journalism in the Assange case. Therefore her role in deceiving the public makes her fully cmplicit in the obvious persecution and torturing of Julian Assange. Press freedom is right now a crucial front in a battle to save civilization from a stealthy tyranny.
And thank you, Katie for helping organize the panel to resist the tyrannical persecution of Steven Donziger. This was an inspiring and powerful event. For people who haven't seen it - "Free Donziger! Krystal Ball, Marianne Williamson, Briahna Joy Gray and MORE"
K & M, This is among the best AND most important episodes, guests and topics you've published (which is a high bar, and not to minimize any others). It should likewise become one of your most listened or watched. Please do promote it where and when you can, and encourage your audience to watch when they can and also to spread the word. Keep up the good work.
This was a great get by you two. Hat tip. At the end, Claire McCatskill makes a comment about how it is, "important to get him [Assange] back to the US..." which is so fucked up because he has never been to the US and is not a US citizen. There is no "back to the US" for Assange.
It is incredible for me that people cannot see how unbelievably dangerous it is FOR THE WORLD that this precedent is not just against journalists, but the US is saying our laws apply to everyone in the world.
Hi ... Sent the following letter to my two senators and congress person plus the local paper. Senator [Person],
Millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on the illegal effort to jail, torture and to extradite for prosecution the Australian citizen Julian Assange. He has spent 9 years in virtual and actually incarceration on behalf of the Government of the United States. Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars have been used in this effort at persecution. He is now set to be extradited from the UK to the USA for what will be an illegal show trial in our country. Obama refused to seek Assange's prosecution understanding the chilling effect it would have on journalism and the ability of the American people to become informed. Information citizens need to make thoughtful decisions that affect their lives and that safeguard the laws of our country. Biden has decided to align himself not with Obama, but with Trump. In a drive to continue the persecution of Mr Assange and his family, begun under Trump. I am asking you now to speak out both publicly and privately for the abandonment of the prosecution of Assange and his family. It is both illegal and immoral. It reflects on us the same lack of legality that we accuse other States of engaging in. States who have a much shallower understanding of legal and social rights and a poor history with the law.
I also want an accounting of the millions of dollars that have been spent for the persecution of Mr Assange. The efforts to charge and extradite him using Taxpayer dollars.
How much has been spent and an itemized list of how the money was spent. On what kind of activities.
My understanding is that one task the security firm hired by our intelligence services were charged with was fishing children's diapers out of the trash? Trying to get some actionable intelligence on Mr Assange and his family?
That may not be an embarrassment for those in Washington DC. But I can tell you that it is appalling to us here in Oregon. Knowing to what degraded use our tax dollars are being spent.
The number of dollars spent on the Assange effort is reported to be in the hundreds of millions. How much more will be spent on a show trial and to keep Assange a prisoner,
The issue has already made us a laughing stock around the world. A trial would just exacerbate that. Governments that would like to treat others in a similar manner will use this case as a justification. Is that what you in congress want the USA to be known for? Kelptocracy of the Law?
The Democratic Party in Washington wants to understand how “A Trump” gets elected in this country. How he can govern almost outside of the law. Well it is because of actions like this. By its Democratic Leaders in Washington. If Democrats won't adhere to the notion that we are a “Country of Laws and not Men”, Then the law doesn't matter. And neither does who is President.
I will not be voting for any Democrat that goes along with this cruel Assange debacle. Knowing that my well being and those of others I care for will not be secured by a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
Senator [person] ... This is how “ A Trump” get elected
David
Portland Oregon
cc The Oregonian
Do you want to be with Trump or on this side of these notable institutions below?
Do you think it would it make any sense to try to pressure Caroline Kennedy, who will be ambassador ro Australia, into fighting to free Assange in the name of her father and uncle (who I would like to think would not have allowed Assange's persecution from the very start)???
He didn’t really answer the question of whether “National defence information” was by definition classified information. That’s too bad and I hope that gets clarified later. I know what Matt was asking but I dont know if Melzer realized the focus of the question.
Most journalists don’t help their sources crack government passwords. On the other hand, they’re using a law (Espionage Act), reserved for spies, to long-arm an Australian citizen who has never even set foot in the US. What kind of precedent does that set? Are all foreign publishers bound by US secrecy laws now? What if China prosecuted the New York Times for violating Chinese secrecy laws?
He is wrong. The 4th leg of government is not the PRESS. It is the BUREAUCRACY. The Bureaucracy is the law, judge, and jury. Clinton's Bureaucracy has set this in motion. Assange is a forgotten Jesus of journalism. You can be shocked, but the world has spun, and no one cares.
GOOGLE for IMAGES of DARRYL BROOKS and how many pictures of the Wakauesha SUV murderer. GOOGLE for IMAGES of ETHAN CRUMBLY, and how many photos do you see? You see what is happening now.
The media, military, industrial complex is corrupt and twisted. Assange is just collateral damage.
One of the things that kills me (though not surprising in the least) is this weird jag people go on about Assange endangering intelligence operatives and/or military personnel. It's obvious why of course; it's just about the only tack you can take regarding the ethics of exposing the government. But there's never any focus on the exposed war hawk policies that actively kill soldiers. Nor is there a real conversation on how being reckless, venal and corrupt in and of itself puts the intelligence community more at risk (from exposure, compromised assets, vulnerability to coercion, conflict of interest, and outside influence) more than investigative journalism ever could. It's just supremely spooky to watch media personalities lambaste a fellow journalist by laying hypothetical dead soldiers at his feet.
I was having a great week until Friday when I checked my emails and there you two were plus Glenn Greenwald with the devastating news about Julian Assange. It was obvious to see how this news effected both of you and I too am heart sick. Since 1963 I have grieved the loss of JFK, RFK, MLK, Malcom X, Medgar Evers, Fred Hampton, to name a few, by the filthy hands of the U.S. government. Australia, UK, US are all culpable in this slow motion assassination of Julian, free speech and the demise of whistle blowers The back story on Julian is the most important right now since this began over 10 years ago and the TRUTH needs to be screamed from the roof tops. Look at what happened with the Kenosha event where the media LIED so blatantly that much of the public (foreign and domestic) thought 3 black people were shot! Can you image what those ass wipes aka MSM will do with this story? I am afraid that your example of the two talking headless heads is a preview of coming disinformation. All the independent voices that I listen to need to spread the word…Useful Idiots, Breaking Points, Glenn Greenwald, The Daily Poster, Aaron Mate, The Grayzone, JRE and whomever else. Among all of you, that would be a huge number of listeners that would actually hear the truth. The hope in my heart is waning. Thank you Katie and Matt
I’m glad Katie focused a question on it because I think it’s extremely important to understand this guy’s change of attitude towards Assange. I remember reading about Julian as a computer geek kid in the early 2000s on slash dot or something before I was politically aware and thinking it was so cool. I remember later as a young adult in the 2010s hearing about the rape allegations and since by then I was a good non political liberal i had that major ICK factor, but I still thought his work was worthwhile despite him being an asshole.
But what REALLY made me rabid about this case was when I finally looked into the details of the case. Probably less than 5 years ago. To realize that the whole rape situation was a bullshit setup, and that my strong emotional revulsion towards Assange was actually because I had been successfully manipulated…..
That gave me the righteous fury that animates my conversations about him. “They” successfully convinced me that this guy was a dirty rapist and I believed them. And they fucking lied. And that kind of emotional deception and my realization of it… that engenders some pretty strong feelings.
(Apart from the merits of the case. Like just talking about effective state propaganda )
Thank you for doing this very insightful interview. I just watched Judy Woodruff over at the PBS Newshour interview the journalist who won the Nobel Peace Prize, talking about the dangers to reporters and press freedom. Woodruff made NO MENTION of the Julian Assange case. Frankly, it is hard not to feel rage and disgust at Judy Woodruff's using her friendly face and civilized manner to cover up the repeated sociopathic crimes of our financial oligarchy. But this is STANDARD PRACTICE at the Plutocrat Broadcasting System's "Newshour", as it is with all the other corporate-controlled media. This blanket cover-up is crucial to the public's unawareness of the financial oligarchy's on-going crimes. There is no way in hell Woodruff is ignorant of the glaring, tyrannical assault on journalism in the Assange case. Therefore her role in deceiving the public makes her fully cmplicit in the obvious persecution and torturing of Julian Assange. Press freedom is right now a crucial front in a battle to save civilization from a stealthy tyranny.
And thank you, Katie for helping organize the panel to resist the tyrannical persecution of Steven Donziger. This was an inspiring and powerful event. For people who haven't seen it - "Free Donziger! Krystal Ball, Marianne Williamson, Briahna Joy Gray and MORE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g4xWtlKUAU
K & M, This is among the best AND most important episodes, guests and topics you've published (which is a high bar, and not to minimize any others). It should likewise become one of your most listened or watched. Please do promote it where and when you can, and encourage your audience to watch when they can and also to spread the word. Keep up the good work.
This was a great get by you two. Hat tip. At the end, Claire McCatskill makes a comment about how it is, "important to get him [Assange] back to the US..." which is so fucked up because he has never been to the US and is not a US citizen. There is no "back to the US" for Assange.
It is incredible for me that people cannot see how unbelievably dangerous it is FOR THE WORLD that this precedent is not just against journalists, but the US is saying our laws apply to everyone in the world.
It is shocking. How quickly such a major figure can be "disappeared."
Hi ... Sent the following letter to my two senators and congress person plus the local paper. Senator [Person],
Millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent on the illegal effort to jail, torture and to extradite for prosecution the Australian citizen Julian Assange. He has spent 9 years in virtual and actually incarceration on behalf of the Government of the United States. Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars have been used in this effort at persecution. He is now set to be extradited from the UK to the USA for what will be an illegal show trial in our country. Obama refused to seek Assange's prosecution understanding the chilling effect it would have on journalism and the ability of the American people to become informed. Information citizens need to make thoughtful decisions that affect their lives and that safeguard the laws of our country. Biden has decided to align himself not with Obama, but with Trump. In a drive to continue the persecution of Mr Assange and his family, begun under Trump. I am asking you now to speak out both publicly and privately for the abandonment of the prosecution of Assange and his family. It is both illegal and immoral. It reflects on us the same lack of legality that we accuse other States of engaging in. States who have a much shallower understanding of legal and social rights and a poor history with the law.
I also want an accounting of the millions of dollars that have been spent for the persecution of Mr Assange. The efforts to charge and extradite him using Taxpayer dollars.
How much has been spent and an itemized list of how the money was spent. On what kind of activities.
My understanding is that one task the security firm hired by our intelligence services were charged with was fishing children's diapers out of the trash? Trying to get some actionable intelligence on Mr Assange and his family?
That may not be an embarrassment for those in Washington DC. But I can tell you that it is appalling to us here in Oregon. Knowing to what degraded use our tax dollars are being spent.
The number of dollars spent on the Assange effort is reported to be in the hundreds of millions. How much more will be spent on a show trial and to keep Assange a prisoner,
The issue has already made us a laughing stock around the world. A trial would just exacerbate that. Governments that would like to treat others in a similar manner will use this case as a justification. Is that what you in congress want the USA to be known for? Kelptocracy of the Law?
The Democratic Party in Washington wants to understand how “A Trump” gets elected in this country. How he can govern almost outside of the law. Well it is because of actions like this. By its Democratic Leaders in Washington. If Democrats won't adhere to the notion that we are a “Country of Laws and not Men”, Then the law doesn't matter. And neither does who is President.
I will not be voting for any Democrat that goes along with this cruel Assange debacle. Knowing that my well being and those of others I care for will not be secured by a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
Senator [person] ... This is how “ A Trump” get elected
David
Portland Oregon
cc The Oregonian
Do you want to be with Trump or on this side of these notable institutions below?
https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30383-4/fulltext
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-julian-assange-extradition-ruling
https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/julian-assange-usa-justice/
https://cpj.org/2021/12/uk-ruling-wikileaks-assange-extradition-seriously-damages-journalism/
https://rsf.org/en/news/us-trump-administration-adds-new-charges-against-julian-assange-violating-espionage-act
https://www.ibanet.org/article/c05c57ee-1fee-47dc-99f9-26824208a750
https://pen-international.org/news/united-kingdom-julian-assange-should-not-be-extradited-to-the-united-states
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/12/assange-prosecution-threatens-modern-journalism
https://www.article19.org/resources/article-19-calls-for-us-justice-department-to-drop-charges-against-assange/
https://www.osce.org/representative-on-freedom-of-media/446923
Do you think it would it make any sense to try to pressure Caroline Kennedy, who will be ambassador ro Australia, into fighting to free Assange in the name of her father and uncle (who I would like to think would not have allowed Assange's persecution from the very start)???
He didn’t really answer the question of whether “National defence information” was by definition classified information. That’s too bad and I hope that gets clarified later. I know what Matt was asking but I dont know if Melzer realized the focus of the question.
Most journalists don’t help their sources crack government passwords. On the other hand, they’re using a law (Espionage Act), reserved for spies, to long-arm an Australian citizen who has never even set foot in the US. What kind of precedent does that set? Are all foreign publishers bound by US secrecy laws now? What if China prosecuted the New York Times for violating Chinese secrecy laws?
He is wrong. The 4th leg of government is not the PRESS. It is the BUREAUCRACY. The Bureaucracy is the law, judge, and jury. Clinton's Bureaucracy has set this in motion. Assange is a forgotten Jesus of journalism. You can be shocked, but the world has spun, and no one cares.
GOOGLE for IMAGES of DARRYL BROOKS and how many pictures of the Wakauesha SUV murderer. GOOGLE for IMAGES of ETHAN CRUMBLY, and how many photos do you see? You see what is happening now.
The media, military, industrial complex is corrupt and twisted. Assange is just collateral damage.
Are there transcripts available anywhere?